Breed Specific Legislation: Banning Dogs

[Hoyden]

I am starting a new topic to answer some questions asked on page two in this thread: http://www.silknaturals.com/forum/viewt ... 32&start=0

Instead of going off topic on the thread above, I figured it would be better to start a new thread about this subject so that I can answer questions & provide links and info to anyone that asks.

I hope I am not being too controversial, but I support a ban of fighting breed dogs, the same dog that killed our chickens has also killed numerous other pets, and bitten my neighbor, and there are news stories all the time about attacks from fighting breeds of dog. I don't blame the dogs, I blame the owners who allow their dogs to roam, don't socialize them properly etc., but seeing as you can't ban the owners (lol) think it is a good idea to ban the dogs. I don't support mass euthenising, but I do support no longer breeding/sterilizing the ones we have.
I know some people really love pit bulls, but how many times have you ever heard of a Labrador attacking a child?
I think that if you give a good, loving home to a pitbull or other fighting breed of dog from a shelter that is great, but why breed more?
Please don't flame me

Nope. Not going to flame you. I promise. A flame throwing fest isn't conducive to opening minds, it burns everyone in sight and no one goes unscathed. What I am going to do is share with you some information that will hopefully give you something to think about and if you'd like, I'll give you some tools to help you with the situation with your neighbor & his loose dogs.

First let me address Breed bans or as it is widely known, Breed Specific Legislation or "BSL".

I do NOT support any kind of breed specific ban, for the simple fact that they are not effective and are discriminatory. There is no evidence to support the effectiveness of banning any specific breed of dog. The statistics from multiple communities, cities & provinces that have breed bans in force have shown that the laws enacted to make the community "safer" have in fact cost them huge sums of money to enforce and the number of dog bites, vicious dog attacks etc. has only been reduced by a negligible amount, if at all. In fact, the ASPCA, the AKC (American Kennel Club) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) do NOT support breed bans.

Here are some of the issues to consider about Breed Specific Legislation;

- It is difficult to identify dog breeds & breed mixes. (You wouldn't believe how many people have insisted that my pit bull is a lab mix or a black lab.)
- Dog control problems are people problems. The breed or mix of the dog is irrelevant.
- Offenses committed by dogs or their owners are currently addressed in existing animal code.
- Breed bans punish responsible dog owners and drives them out of the community.
- Breed bans push the banned breeds underground giving the community a false sense of security.
- Those that previously had the "problem dogs" will move onto another breed of dog.

The problem is not with the breed of dog; the problem is, as you stated, with the dog owner. You can ban pit bull, pit bull mixes and any of the "fighting breeds", but that means your neighbor will get ANOTHER breed of dog, let it roam free and that dog may attack your chickens, kill other pets and bite your neighbor.

The most effective way to address issues with dogs is to address the issues with people starting with education and "Dog Owner" legislation that is reasonable, non-discriminatory and includes enforceable laws for ANIMALS that are deemed dangerous. Notice I said ANIMALS instead of dogs. There have been several cases of cats that have attacked and injured people reported. Nope. Not joking. I'll find the news story if you want it.

I know some people really love pit bulls, but how many times have you ever heard of a Labrador attacking a child?

I HAVE heard of Labrador Retrievers biting a child. When I was an Assistant Animal Control officer many years ago, I had two Labs euthanized for biting children after I conducted investigations and determined that the bites were unprovoked & that the dogs had histories of human aggression.

Birdie & I were attacked by an off leash golden retriever on Black Friday 2007. We were both bitten several times and ended up in the Emergency Room at the hospital where we were both treated. I still have puncture wound scars on my left arm, Birdie is still missing fur on her face where she was bitten.

The city of Denver Colorado has killed 1,667 pit bulls between 2005 and March 2009 yet it is not the pit bull that is leading the pack in the Denver area as the breed with the most bites. It is the LABRADOR RETRIEVER with 13.3%. Followed by pit bulls at 8.4% and German Shepherds at 7.8%.

Keep in mind that the percentage of dog bites per breed will increase as the popularity of the dog breed increases. Once a breed is popular, there are more of them them out there, therefore there are more reported dog bites. Also, the larger the dog, the bigger the dog's mouth & teeth are, this increases the severity of a bite, especially when you have a small child and a large dog.


There is some very interesting information about the effectiveness of the Denver Colorado pit bull ban in these articles:
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_11796291
http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=3473
http://animals.change.org/blog/view/the ... _bull_ban?


Here are some links that have quite a bit of information about breed bans:
ASPCA: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruel ... ation.html
Kansas State University: http://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleas ... 92506.html
The National Canine Research Council: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.co ... reed-bans/
Animal Legal & Historical Web Center: http://www.animallaw.info/articles/aruslweiss2001.htm
The Humane Society of the United States: http://www.hsus.org/pets/pets_related_n ... udice.html

[Xarata]

well said!

I really wish people heard more stories like Birdie's (i know she's not alone in her sweetness) as she's a tribute to a breed that has been harshly stereotyped.

[sewwies]

Yeah, I know there's a weird culture around here (it's all about looking tough in some parts of Birmingham) where people wander round with their pitbulls and rottweilers in studded collars and they're not dog people. They blatantly haven't bothered to train them and just wander around looking 'hard'. It's the breed of owner not the breed of dog. If you think about the kind of dogs people stereotypically have, the family dogs, the fighting dogs, the working dogs, that's what they're bought for and thats what they're turned in to!

[superwahz]

Thanks for posting that Hoyden! Very well said. Selective elimination of breeds will never work because those using animals for violence will just find a new breed to target. I helped a friend write a college paper on breed bans, pit bulls, and the affect societal prejudices have on our perception of animals and it was very eye opening. One of my close friends is a news producer and commented once that stories of dog attacks involving "family dogs" rarely ever make the cut to the final newscast, but one of a "fighting breed" rapidly becomes a top story, because that's what gets the viewers.

The most aggressive dogs I've ever dealt with were chihuahuas! Seriously though, while attacks from most small breeds don't normally kill adults, they can, and have, killed children. And their bad behavior is less likely to be corrected because people think their aggressiveness is cute. It all comes down to the owners and living environment.

LilyChem- I can't imagine how heartbreaking it was to find your chickens killed by a neighborhood dog! I'm so sorry you and your family went through that. I don't think people on this forum will flame you, you're just expressing how you feel based on the experiences you've had. It seems to me that this is a great group of women who can have differing opinions and express them without being ugly or inflammatory.

[lilychemgirl]

Thanks for the info Hoyden I guess a breed specific ban is not going to help then I would really like to ban the owners though! The two dogs who killed my chooks (and the next door neighbours rabbit, and bit the neighbour, and threatened dh when he tried to chase them off - they came back to our property several times) were destroyed, so they are not a concern, but I just hate roaming dogs in general, my 2 year old plays in my garden, and I've seen the larger breeds jump a 6 foot fence, so even though we're fenced it doesn't help.

Superwahz - It was awful Thank goodness my then-5 year old wasn't with me when I found them, I was traumatised enough dh (who is not the sort of guy to cry) actually wept when he was cleaning them up, it was carnage

I hope no one thinks I am dissing responsible dog owners, or that I hate dogs, I am definitely an animal lover (my babies are my chooks - who are surprisingly cuddly when you hand rear them, and my kitty, Sasha, who was a feral kitten I rescued from my work).

[zeebs]

Chihuahuas are notorious for temperament problems. Should we also ban them?

And yes - you (superwahz) also make a good point when you say that new breeds will be developed for fighting purposes.

It's impossible to legislate the appetites of men or to legislate morality.

[karen]

I love the well reasoned discussion going on here. I'm going to leave you gals to it, but I wanted to chime in a little too. I've seen chicken carnage, and it's depressing...I can't imagine what it must be like to clean up your family "pets" like that. It's heartbreaking.

Most dogs have a prey drive that's built-in. Even tiny, sweet, well socialized, lap dogs will chase things on occasion. It's why dogs like squeeky toys. Bostons are generally goofballs- they weigh less than 25 pounds, don't bark very often, are bread to be lap dogs, and they have tiny little teeth. You couldn't breed a less intimidating dog if you tried (okay maybe a pug), but they'll chase things.

I caught Bitsy playing with a mouse out in the back yard when she was about 3 months old...she weighted maybe 4 pounds, and was always the sweet little puppy that everyone cooed at (she still is- she's the dog on the front page of the site). She was never taught aggression, we never even played tug of war with her, but I know if we hadn't stepped in she would have eventually killed it. I'm positive Suzie would chase a chicken. It's just when we go over to my brother's house where there are chickens she's on a leash. She doesn't get the chance to chase the chickens.

Unless a dog is old, or incredibly lazy they'll chase things if given the chance, and pretty much any dog is capable of killing something. There's some sort of a big problem on Long Island with roaming packs of wild beagles that are terrorizing people. Can you imagine? Snoopy dogs...

[Hoyden]

Thanks for the info Hoyden I guess a breed specific ban is not going to help then I would really like to ban the owners though! The two dogs who killed my chooks (and the next door neighbours rabbit, and bit the neighbour, and threatened dh when he tried to chase them off - they came back to our property several times) were destroyed, so they are not a concern, but I just hate roaming dogs in general, my 2 year old plays in my garden, and I've seen the larger breeds jump a 6 foot fence, so even though we're fenced it doesn't help.

Superwahz - It was awful Thank goodness my then-5 year old wasn't with me when I found them, I was traumatised enough dh (who is not the sort of guy to cry) actually wept when he was cleaning them up, it was carnage

I hope no one thinks I am dissing responsible dog owners, or that I hate dogs, I am definitely an animal lover (my babies are my chooks - who are surprisingly cuddly when you hand rear them, and my kitty, Sasha, who was a feral kitten I rescued from my work).

Nope. Breed bans will not help. For what it's worth, the dogs I am most wary around are standard poodles and standard schnauzers. Yes, some large dogs can jump 6 foot fences without a problem. Birdie can when she's not over weight; before we lost Petey, he could when he was younger.

A 6 foot stockade type fence has some benefits. First of all, dogs & people can't see into your yard, so they don't know what's there. Second, it keeps dogs and people OUT of your yard, and if they are ambitious enough to go over your fence, it's an obstacle they have to clear before they can get into your yard.

Just something to think about. Most people and athletic dogs have to touch the top of the fence to get over. I have only seen TWO dogs out of thousands that could leap a six foot fence WITHOUT touching it. Now running with that thought, you can make the top of your fence rather unfriendly by a) running some barb wire along the top or b) hot wiring your fence, if someone or something touches it, they are going to get cut by the barbed wire or shocked by the hot wire.

If those two options are a little to aggressive for you, you can plant some really obnoxious "protective landscaping" along the outside of your fence. Roses, blackberries, raspberries & barberry shrubs are some good ones. I don't know where you live, so I can't suggest any that are good in your zone.

If you'd like some other suggestions for keeping dogs out of your yard, and keeping your chickens safe let me know, I've got plenty that I can share.

If loose dogs are a problem, I suggest you get a GOOD super soaker type watergun that can shoot a stream of water a long ways. Load it with water and unsweetened koolaid diluted in half the water suggested on the package or put some food coloring that will stain in it. Purple, blue, red are good colors.

If you catch a loose dog on your property or if an off leash dog is menacing people, give it a dye job. That way animal control or the police can identify the dog later. The owner can't claim "it's not MY dog" when Fido is lovely shade of purple.

[JenW]

Hoyden....you are my hero!

And I do agree that this is a lovely place for a respectful and educational conversation about many topics. Respect and an open mind go a very long way. Thank you! You all make my job so easy and fun.

[Hoyden]

Chihuahuas are notorious for temperament problems. Should we also ban them?

And yes - you (superwahz) also make a good point when you say that new breeds will be developed for fighting purposes.

It's impossible to legislate the appetites of men or to legislate morality.

I personally believe that if the dog is unsound, it should be put down. No excuses made. When I worked as an Assistant Animal Control Officer, I had people tear into me because I would send labs, cocker spaniels, chihuahuas, small cute furry mixed breed dogs, hound mixes etc to be euthanized too. I refused to allow them to be adopted or for rescues to take them because they were temperamentally unsound and posed an exceptionally high risk for biting a person.

Some people choose to keep dogs that are temperamentally unsound or human aggressive. I don't have a problem with that as long as they are able to maintain control over that dog at ALL TIMES, and ensure that it does not harm other people or animals. If they should fail to properly control & contain that animal, then that animal should be humanely euthanized.

I catch a lot of grief for making that statement, but I personally feel that you should be responsible for your animals, if you can not be, then you should not own an animal that is a danger to the public. Period.